Joanna Cassidy was in Bladerunner. She ran through all those glass walls. Well, actually, she told me that she only ran through the last one, but I was impressed none-the-less.

     “How do you like playing a sexy mom on one of the sexiest shows on television?” I asked, rushed, I had to repeat the question. On the drive to Chicago, I practiced it in that tiny mirror on the sun-visor as my opening line. Cassidy has a recurring role as Margaret on HBO’s delicious show Six Feet Under.

     “I think that’s what I should be playing.” Answered Cassidy.

     “Why do you say that?”

     “Because I’m a sexy woman. I mean, why try and squash me into some little, you know, Howdy Doody box? I’m strong and powerful. Why, I don't understand why anyone would want to do that.” She was very direct, I thought.

     “And you know, there’s so many difficult, I mean it's difficult to find roles when you reach a certain point in your career, I suppose, and this one....”

     “If you're a woman.” Cassidy saw where I was going.

     “I didn’t want to say that but now that you said it, you know, The Ghost of Mars, I mean, there's a fun role. You’re drawn to a lot of science fiction characters, why is that do you think?” I avoided the more difficult question, but the foundation had been laid.

     “Science fiction characters, as I said before, I don't fit into that box, unless I have a great adversary to come up against.”

     “How tall are you by the way?” I asked; she appeared to be taller than me. I’m 5 foot 9 in Air Jordan high tops.

     “I’m 5'9, but I look imposing. You know what I mean, that’s not that tall, some actresses are 6 feet. Someone like Craig Nelson, I played his wife in a mini-series. It was great because he’s a rough-tough guy, so I got to humble up against him. That’s how it should be. Can you repeat the question? Sorry.”

     “No problem, I was just asking you about science fiction characters and you find science fiction characters tough, I suppose, most of the ones that you play.”

     “Um, you know Wiley Coyote? How he would, you know, he always had something up his sleeve and whenever he was about to do that thing, he’s sitting around with a big smile, and that’s who I thought about. I thought Margaret has to be totally so obsessive right from the beginning, totally freak them out; they won’t even be thinking, I’ll fluster everyone so much that they won’t have to ask me any questions. I’ll get away with it, that’s what I was thinking.”--Joanna Cassidy on her character on HBO's SIX FEET UNDER.

     “They’re so physical, which I’m still practically physical and I like to get into action.”

     “You look great.” I meant it. She looked better in real life than on the screen. I so wanted to ask her about all the many hair fashions she has sported over the years.

     “I still can do it.” She said with conviction; I was convinced. Our readers may have caught her playing Whitlock in John Carpenter’s Ghosts of Mars. Whitlock was a survivor, much like Cassidy herself.

     “How much of it is though? I mean, with the special effects, which, by the way, may have ruined modern sci-fi, so many films are all the special effects and less of the heady intellectual stuff.” I began to ramble. I’m hooked on this recurring theme that special effects have ruined modern science fiction films because no longer must they think.

     “I don’t agree with that, I think the story gets taken, something loses, you know, usually the story.”

     “Every film today has to have some sort of giant climatic blue screen event.” I retorted. I ought to interview a special effects guy to rebut my recurring theme.

     “Well, it seems to be that way in that genre, I mean, we’ve gotten to a point now where that’s all they do. Unless somebody comes along with a wonderfully intriguing story, like Memento.” Yes, Cassidy is hip, I knew it. Hell, you could tell just be looking at her.

     “Wonderful movie.” I said.

     “I thought that was such a fascinating storyline. It was clearly a murder mystery but you didn’t need special effects in that, you know, flashback.”

     “I teach college and I’m telling my students, Memento, the whole memory thing, that’s a science fiction thing in a way.” Another familiar theme I keep kicking around at cocktail parties.

     “That’s what most science fiction writers write about, really good ones, Heinlein and all those people. And that to me is the most exciting or special effects.”

     “The ability to Grok?” I asked rhetorically remembering my 1970s beat up paperback copy of Stranger in a Strange Land gathering dust behind that 19 inch computer monitor I squeezed into my cramped office about a year ago.

     “So you’re a Heinlein fan?”

     “Totally.” She was a girl after my own heart, and others at the festival.

     Periodically, Ms. Cassidy was approached during our interview by a festival-goer who requested an autograph. Cassidy told me that the most popular photo she had on her table was of her enraged sneering and scantily dressed; it was from Bladerunner. She autographed one for me.

     “How did you develop the Margaret character and her snide Prozac smile; especially the one where you’re in the apartment and you open the door and Billy has come home but Brenda and Nate don‘t know it yet. You can tell something is amiss by your smile. How did you develop that?”

     “Um....” She was thinking.

     “What it does, I watch people’s careers recycle and that’s what happens. it's come and go. You cannot stay out there all the time, a star fades a little bit.”--Joanna Cassidy

     “Or did you even think about it?”

     “I totally thought about it, I mean, a secret there, I actually went to a cartoon, if you can believe that.”

     “Ok.”

     “Um, you know Wiley Coyote? How he would, you know, he always had something up his sleeve and whenever he was about to do that thing, he’s sitting around with a big smile, and that’s who I thought about. I thought Margaret has to be totally so obsessive right from the beginning, totally freak them out; they won’t even be thinking, I’ll fluster everyone so much that they won’t have to ask me any questions. I’ll get away with it, that’s what I was thinking.”

     “Getting away with it, that whole show is about guilt isn’t it?”

     “Mm hmm.”

     “And where is your character, Margaret, going from here, do you have any insight?”

     “I don’t. I’m going to go talk to the Producer when I get back, maybe. Where do you think Margaret should go?” Cassidy asked.

     “Well, I think she should ditch her husband.” It was a quick instant response. If you watch the show, it made sense. Margaret is so much fun on the show but can be dulled down by her boorish husband played by Robert Foxworth with a beard and a slow toned condescending manner that is appropriate for the role.

     “Oh, I do too! I think he’s a whore. And I think he’s a rat too, and he’s totally, that last scene where he says that behind my back, I was so upset about that. I love Robert Foxworth, but I mean that was awful.” Cassidy was using her hands as she spoke now, really getting into it.

     “And you can tell that at the party for Brenda, with the prostitute, you can tell he knew about her, because he was talking to her.” I said as into the subject as she was.

     In that particularly perfect episode of Six Feet Under, Brenda, played by one awfully good Aussie actress Rachel Griffiths, arrives late to her own wedding shower thrown by her mother, Margaret, played by Cassidy. Brenda has brought with her a prostitute acquaintance who had spent the night with Brenda at a swingers sex party. Monks chant in the background in another scene, and the chanting continues hauntingly throughout other scenes including part of the wedding shower. Very powerful stuff.

     “Oh yeah.” Answered Cassidy.

     “Yeah, he’s not done is he? He’s not done being unfaithful.” I said, the guy was just a rat on the show.

     “No, he’s not.”

     We spoke of the characters from Six Feet Under as if they we real. I guess I watch soap operas after all.

     “You know, these are insightful things, it must be wonderful to work on such a smart show.”

     “It’s the best. I’ve managed, I was in Buffalo Bill 20 years ago, which was to me the smartest show up until this point in time, in terms of ...... drama whatever they call them, um, that’s one thing.”

     “There were a lot of good early 80's shows that fell by the wayside, then there were some shows in the 70's that were smart, like Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman.” I remember sneaking behind my parents back very late at night catching my mother watching an episode or two of Hartman; I wouldn‘t have been much older than 5 or 6. These memories come to you at the strangest times.

     “That’s true. Dabney Coleman was on Mary Hartman too. Brilliant, creative shows.” She smiled and mentioned Billy Crystal.

     “You were on Dallas. You’ve done a lot of television, but main stream television versus HBO, it's gotta be like working night and day. Even the look of Six Feet Under is head and shoulders above anything on mainstream television.”

     “Nothing touches it. It would be hard to do a network show.” She said.

     “It would be hard to go back?”

     “It would be hard to go back. Maybe one needs to quit when you're on top.”

     “No.” I said rocking back in my chair.

     “No?” She asked and began to laugh. Cassidy had no intention of quitting now.

     “No, no, no, this show has it given you some new life? I don’t want to suggest but....”

     “No, no.”

     “Or imply.”

     “What it does, I watch people’s careers recycle and that’s what happens. it's come and go. You cannot stay out there all the time, a star fades a little bit.” Cassidy said sounding serious.

     “And it gets harder?”

     “It does, it's better to come back fresh and be fresh and surprise your fans again. I think it's very exciting to do that, come back in a whole new light.”

     When editing this interview, I was reminded of Julie Christie’s comeback in Afterglow. At some point in my discussion with Joanna Cassidy, we talked about Fahrenheit 451, an adaptation of the Bradbury classic. Cassidy commented favorably on Christie’s performance. I was surprised how quick Cassidy was with the film and the actor’s names. She is a fan as well as a part of the magic.

     “No question, this show is a new life for you, because you’re so smart on this show. That’s why I would like to see Margaret in the clinical setting; I would like to see her rid of this man. I know my wife would.”

     “I would too, when I read that I was horrified.” Margaret reconciles with her two-timing husband on the show and the two renew their vows in a new age ceremony that was purposely trite and insincere.

     “What are your favorite movies?” I asked.

     “I love the movies from the '40s and '30s, you know, the drawing room comedies. I love Humphrey’s later movies, Ida Lupino, I loved her. Ava Gardner, most of those women, they were what Hollywood movies are to me.”

     “Your influences?”

     “Yes. Absolutely. I really feel like I was born at the wrong time. I don’t feel like I belong in this one.”

     “Really?”

     “Yeah.”

     “Okay, so you see yourself as a....”

     “Truly more of a '40s actress. Like in Roger Rabbit, you know, the clothes and that sort of thing, you know, smart ass kind of.”

     Rusty wandered by after interviewing Ingrid Pitt. I introduced him to Ms. Cassidy. Rusty indicated that he had to exit the building and make notes from his interview, but I was sure that his main goal was to grab a smoke.

     “But a lot of actors have benefited from the freedom today. Like Pacino, he is fantastic.“

     “Mm hmm. He is fantastic.”

     “Have you seen Insomnia?”

     “Yes.”

     “The movie was good, okay, the ending left a little to be desired. But Pacino looked so tired, the whole time.”

    “Mm hmm.” Cassidy responded.

     “I mean, just haggard.”

     “Mm hmm.”

     “Here’s a guy who has so greatly benefited from the revolution of the 70's--being able to use the language, to have the violence, to have the sex, the whole thing. Would you have suffered had you been an actress in that time? Probably not. Has that hurt you, the whole censorship, of course, if you go far enough back there wasn’t a censor but....”

    “Right, right, I think in some way, yeah. I think the whole thing with a woman is that you have to, if you're a beauty, you know, you started out playing the beautiful parts. Those are the parts, they don't want to see you alter that stage, they want to remember you like that. They don’t want to see you age.”

     “Some people age so wonderfully.” I hinted.

     “I think so, definitely, I think it's a right and an entitlement to age, and age gracefully. I tell you one, Vanessa Redgrave.”

     “No doubt.”

    “But really, honestly she’s the only one I can think of. Can you think of anyone?

     “I guess, I’m maybe just drawing a blank anyway.” Gosh, I could name so many, but I hadn’t had any breakfast. What about Faye Dunaway? And Sissy Spacek had just been nominated for and Oscar, and Tuesday Weld looked awesome in Chelsea Walls this year. These names didn’t come to me until after the interview. She had a point.

     “Well maybe but it's something to think about.” She said.

     “I will think about that. I just think that maybe it's because I am growing older and 50 to 60 are seeming a lot younger as I get older.”

     “Yeah.”

     “But at any rate, I think, I don’t know, I think there has to be some vehicle for seeing our stars as they age and it seems like the vehicles now are for men and younger women instead of the opposite.”

     “Totally.” She said.

     “I mean, they even did that in Insomnia to a certain extent, and I was made uncomfortable by it because Pacino had made such an effort to make himself look unattractive and then there was this undercurrent that I just didn’t like and....”

     “What undercurrent?” She asked, flashing the Prozac smile--Wiley E. at your service.

     “There was like a sexual tension between the character played by Maura Tierney and Pacino that I didn’t think needed to be there. Maybe it was just something I was reading into.”

     “No, I read the script because I was up to play the cabin owner.”

     “Really? You would have been perfect. Why did they go with Tierney?”

     “I thought she was very good actually. They were completely different choices between me. I thought that I would have been more in age and it would make more sense. I could, you know, it would be very comfortable for me, and I would not have played the sexual tension. There would have been....”

     “I think there was sexual tension.” I interjected.

     “Well that’s what was built in the script.”

     “I’m glad that I read it right then.”

     “You totally read that right in there between the two of them I think.”

     “Yet, there’s just no chemistry.” I said

     “Totally inappropriate. He would not have been sexual at that point, and how the Hell could he think after being up for 6 days? How can somebody think?”

     “I don’t know, we can ask Rusty? He stays up all night watching DVDs and writing all those reviews.”

     “There you go.” Cassidy smiled cartoonishly.

     We were joined by Rusty who crouched down by the autograph table and told us reverently that he was able to ask Polish actress and Holocaust survivor Ingrid Pitt if she enjoyed shooting NAZIs in the classic film Where Eagles Dare. I stopped taping our conversation at that point.

    Joanna Cassidy, whose beauty belies her age, is 5 foot 9 and full of zest, currently being caught on film playing a role in Six Feet Under for which she is perfect.

Jonathan W. Hickman